Episode 13

LISTEN HERE (52.44 minutes):

For the entire video, watch here (one hour, 25 minutes):
One correction in this video. I said in here that I thought only Jon Mundy was still alive from the original group that was around Helen Schucman and Bill Thetord back in the 60’s and 70’s.  But my husband Bill reminded me that Judy Skutch was there and is still here on planet earth! I love her! So I wanted to add that here. ENJOY. I am so grateful for all the efforts of everyone involved to get A Course in Miracles published. 


00:00                                         Welcome to another episode of the Lisa Show. I’m Lisa Natoli. Thank you so much for joining me. Today’s topic is called Meditation and Guidance. And the show today comes from a video talk that I gave in one of our Friday morning A Course in Miracles groups. And what I’ve done here this week is I condensed the talk down to under one hour for the podcast. So it’s just pure teaching in this audio file. I hope you enjoy it. The video itself is one hour and 25 minutes. There are some amazing comments from the people in the Friday morning group.

00:43                                         There’s also a big section in the video from people expressing what I mean to them as part of a birthday celebration. So if you’re interested in that, I do encourage you to go watch the video. I just felt that for many people, one hour, 25 minutes is just too long. So this week, I just wanted to really just give you a podcast. It’s an amazing topic, Meditation and Guidance. I hope you enjoy it. If you want to watch the blog and the video, it’s over on my website, which is lisanatoli.com. Enjoy.

01:22                                         Today I’m going to be talking about Cameo #18 from A Course in Miracles. It’s about meditation and guidance. And I was going to do Cameo #14. These are essays that are in the back of the latest version of A Course in Miracles. There’s I think 33 essays, and they’re all about the early stories of Jesus in the mind of Helen Schucman in the 1960s, giving those early instructions to Helen Schucman and Bill Thetford about how to hear God’s voice, how to forgive, how to see things differently. So a lot of that, really nobody’s heard about all these years because these were just private notes that were to the two of them in Helen’s private journals. And they were also part of notes because there was a group of individuals that were really they are present.

02:31                                         The only person still living today who was there as part of that original group is Jon Mundy. He’s a dear friend of ours. Many of us here know him. And he is going to be at Vicky Thomas’ house on June 2nd with Rod Chelberg. How many of you guys know Rod? He’s awesome. Rod is our physician, and he has major mystical experiences. And so Rod Chelberg and Jon Mundy are going to be at Vicky Thomas’ house on June 2nd. You’re all invited. And then I think it’s an all-day event. I think it’s from 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM. Does anybody know the exact time?

03:21                                         Bonnie had flyers, but I didn’t get to pick them up. So I don’t know what time it is. [crosstalk 00:03:26].

03:26                                         Okay, so, yeah, we don’t know exactly, but just check my website. It’s on my website, lisanatoli.com. And then the two of them are going to be in Portland, Maine, on June 3rd, and they’re doing a workshop and teaching at Unity up there in Portland. So if you guys really want to go really see some amazing teachers, but John was there during those early days in the 1970s, and those stories are now available to all of us. So today what I wanted to do, I was looking at Cameo #14, which was so good. It’s about the miscreation of thought, how the first air of thought that you have goes you go bump, bump, bump, bump, bump right down the stairs into the next air of thought, next air of thought, next air of thought, next air of thought so that you have to be vigilant to catch that first air of thought before you go crashing right down into darkness. So I was going to do that one, and I probably will touch on it a little bit today.

04:42                                         But then a few days ago, I just opened to course up, and it landed on Cameo #18, which is about meditation and guidance. I wanted to talk about that today because meditation is not in A Course in Miracles, it’s a mind-training course. I find it fascinating that he spends so much time in this cameo that I’m going to read today about meditation. And the second part is guidance, and that has to do with Bill Thetford’s problem with hearing God’s voice because he’s often frustrated that he doesn’t hear the voice the way Helen Schucman hears it.

05:28                                         And so Jesus is addressing both of those problems, Helen’s problem with meditation and Bill’s problem and difficulty with guidance. And it’s so relevant to all of us. So I’m going to be talking about that today. So I just wanted to ask you to open … How many of you still get sucked into other people’s dramas?

05:55                                         Never.

05:55                                         [crosstalk 00:05:56].

05:56                                         And this requires honesty. I know: “Never. I never. I’m so perfect.” And this path requires honesty. So the first characteristic of a teacher of God is trust because the guidance that you’re going to get is going to defy logic. What you will be asked to do goes against the entire though system of a human being. The second characteristic of a teacher of God is honesty. So one of the probably the main sticking point that I see in myself over the years and then in other people as I am as a teacher is people come in to a spiritual path, and they try to be spiritual.

06:43                                         So when I ask the question, “How many of you get sucked into other people’s dramas?” spiritual people go, “Not me.” That’s not honest. Yes, of course, we all get sucked into other people’s dramas, so people say, “I’m disappointed in you.” How many of you have that? “You should be another way.” “Explain yourself.” Okay, let’s use that one. How many of you have had somebody call you on something and say, “You did this. Explain yourself?” Right? We all have that.

07:16                                         Are you talking recently [crosstalk 00:07:17]?

07:17                                         Yeah. This morning, and just in general, the things that we get sucked into that seem very real, like we really believe that the situations and the people in our lives are calling us to say something or do something or think sometime, and we really believe we have to do that. Right? And we just think that’s just normal. What I’m going to show you today is that the first step is just to recognize, “Okay, where am I before I make a move? What’s my location before I get dragged down into this situation? And the second thing is how many of you still get sucked into your own thoughts and feelings and emotions? So you still have the thought, “I’m not doing it right. I’m not good enough.”

08:27                                         And the way you know if you just got sucked off your center is by the way you feel. So you feel overwhelmed. You feel angry. You feel irritated. You feel frustrated, and then, and you feel guilty. You feel shame because I’m supposed to be walking the talk, and I’m feeling this way. So I guess I’m not a very good spiritual person. And the only thing you can do in that space is project your guilt. That’s it. When you’re in that location, like I always talk about your point of viewing, what’s your point where you’re standing in the place where you look out? What wherever you’re standing from, love or fear, that’s what you’re going to see.

09:17                                         So I still see people attacking each other. I still see the news. I don’t have my head in the sand. I see all of that. But my location always sees possibility. It always only sees people who don’t know what they’re doing. And then the mind training is that I can really see, “Ah, that’s for me to heal because there’s one mind.” So when I see it out there, they don’t have to heal it, I heal it for them because I share their mind. So now there’s forgiveness, constantly letting the past go.

09:58                                         So this morning, I have a morning routine where I get up, get my coffee, get back into bed. And this morning I was looking at those early lessons–they’re brilliant. Is there anybody here who doesn’t know A Course in Miracles or who has never done a workbook lessons?

10:17                                         I’m just starting.

10:18                                         You’re what? You’re just-

10:18                                         I’m just starting.

10:19                                         That’s awesome, so good.

10:19                                         [crosstalk 00:10:23].

10:26                                         And so the workbook lessons-

10:28                                         [crosstalk 00:10:28]. Thank you.

10:29                                         … are 365 lessons designed to take you from the place where you think you are in fear and as a body and lead you home, which is within. Lesson five, we’re only on day five, I’m never upset for the reason I think. Day five. He doesn’t waste any time at all. If I’m upset by anyone or anything, I’m never upset for the reason I think. Lesson #6: I’m upset because I see something that’s not there. I just get chills. That’s amazing. I’m upset because I see something that’s not there, and the only thing that the mind can do is tell a story. It thinks it’s upset. You’re off center. You’re literally over here when you should be here, living as the truth, and the wholeness, and the innocence, and the love that you are, that God created.

11:32                                         But you’re over here as a limited self identity alone, afraid, scared, helpless, weak, irritated. And the only thing that you can do is justify your position. That’s just what naturally happens. It’s not wrong, but I love the messages I see on Facebook, and I told this one woman yesterday I feel like I have my superpower Christ vision glasses on all the time. And when people talk to me, I hear everything they say, but I’ve filtering. That’s what it feels like to me.

12:11                                         when I read things, I’m like scanning, scanning, scanning, scanning, scanning, scanning. And I’m always, just always love in there, and there’s always truth in every single message no matter what. So this one woman was posting about so much gratitude in this letter, and there’s so much joy. And then she said towards the end … I knew, I could sense that there was a problem. I could sense from the longness of the letter and that it was more than just a letter of gratitude.

12:45                                         And then she got to the crux of it, which was like, “I have a money problem.” And I zoomed. I zoomed right in there. I said, “Okay. Well, that’s the only blocking point right there. Nobody has a money problem. You have a separation problem. So correct the separation problem. You think you’re alone. You don’t know the presence, and the power, and the intelligence that is with you.” If you knew who walks with you, fear would be impossible. That’s why I can give my money away, because I know there’s like a whole storehouse coming, but if I block it, if I start to go, “Oh, I need this,” then I’ve blocked the flow, not of the money, but of the knowledge that I’m not alone.

13:37                                         I now think I’m alone, and now I have to handle everything myself. And so I just love these early lessons because it says, I was writing, this is my journal, “I’m never upset for the reason I think, I’m upset because I see something that’s not there. My thoughts do not mean anything.” That’s funny, right? My thoughts do not mean anything. All the thoughts you’re having, they don’t mean anything. And you know what lesson eight says? That when you’re thinking about the past or the future, your mind is actually blank, and you think you’re thinking thoughts.

14:24                                         And then it says, “The past is not here. To think about it at all is to think about illusions.” But what do we spend our time doing? We spend almost all our time thinking about people, places, and things and what they did from before this moment. So to think about these things is to think about illusions. And then I love the workbook lesson. I really encourage anyone who’s done them before and still experiencing difficulty to do them again. That’s my suggestion. That’s what the master teacher used to say to us. He would just say, “Do them again,” because the way I think about it, it’s kind of like you sign up for a gym membership, and you only go sometimes, and when you do go, you read the magazines and you hang out in the spa in the locker room. You’re not actually going to the gym and flexing your muscles. You’re saying you’re going to the gym, and you have a gym membership, but you’re not actually like doing anything.

15:32                                         So my suggestion, if you’re still experiencing all of those emotions, and you’re confused, and you’re angry, and you’re irritated, do them again. A year is going to go by anyways, right? So you might as well make a commitment because they have fill in the blanks. So you can commit yourself to a one-year training program to find all the thoughts. So even this morning, I’ve been on this path a long time, I have a whole list in here of my own attack thoughts, my own attack thought. And for me, they have to do with I’m not doing enough. I’m failing people. I’m not responding to the emails because there’s so many. And now I’m not thanking people for all the love they extend to me. And it literally is an attack thought, and there’s nothing to correct about it because what the ego will say was, ” Hire someone to help you”–that’s what the ego wants us to do. We’ll fix the illusion, and then you’ll feel better. What Jesus is saying, “No, catch the thought that you’re making yourself guilty for not being there for everyone and correct that thought.”

15:32                                         Amen.

16:51                                         Amen.

16:51                                         Amen.

16:52                                         And so it says, “I seem to be thinking about blank.” You fill in the blank. “But my mind is preoccupied with past thoughts.” And then lesson 15 says, “It is because the thoughts you think you think …” I love that. “It’s because of the thoughts you think you think …” You only think you’re thinking them. “It’s because of the thoughts you think you think appear as images that you do not recognize them as nothing.”

17:24                                         All the people that appear to you, all the things people are saying and asking you to do, and because you think you think them, these are your thoughts, you see them as images. You don’t see them as nothing. So now you’re reacting to figures in a dream, and you’re not doing the work. That’s why I get excited all the time, because I can’t believe I can buy this book for $40. Right? People say, “Oh my God, $ 40? That’s ridiculously expensive. What a racket that organization is. It’s making money. They should give it away.” I’m like, “$40.” Right?

18:13                                         How much do we pay for coffee every other day, right? Like $6 every time I go to Starbucks. So to me it’s like there’s an excitement for me that this message is in the world, and it’s available, and it’s a self study. So one of the other messages that came in the Living in Purpose group yesterday was about finding a group, finding a group to study A Course in Miracles. And there’s good groups, like this is a group, and it’s a great group. But to me the group is you and your inner teacher–that’s the group. This is a self-study. You need the book, because otherwise you’re just going to keep waiting for the Friday group to come along so you can get some nugget of great information. But that’s going piecemeal. You want the whole thing, right?

19:07                                         And so if you’re going to have a group, you and Jesus, or you and the Holy Spirit, or you and God, whatever you want to call it, schedule it. When does your group meet? My group meets every single morning at least for one hour every morning without fail. It does not matter where I am or how I’m traveling. And my group also meets a couple times a week. My group often meets in the bathtub, but I meet with my inner teacher, and I let myself be led and guided.

19:42                                         So it says, “You think you think them, and so you think you see them. This is not seeing, it is merely image-making. It takes the place of vision, replacing vision with illusions.” And then, I love it, it says, lesson 16, “I have no neutral thoughts. Every thought that occurs to you is a suitable subject for today’s idea.” It says, “There’s no such thing as an idle thought because how can a thought that creates a whole world be idle?”

20:22                                         So this thought about blank is not a neutral thought. And then it said, ” You’re only doing one of two things at all time.” You have a thought. You are either thinking about illusions, so you’re thinking about the past or the future, or you’re extending the truth. Those are your only two choices. So Jesus is really clear about sickness. Sickness is isolation, it’s not an accident: You’re not extending. You’re not remembering who you are. And you don’t need to extend it to other people, you need to extend it in your mind and stop thinking about illusion. Stop thinking about that problem. Remember the truth.

21:05                                         So extension is when you have a person in your mind. You’re thinking about them like, “Oh, man.” You’re just like, “I can’t believe they did that.” Extension is when you catch the thought and you see them whole. You see them as the truth of what they are, and that’s a miracle. And then in lesson 23, I couldn’t believe this. This is the first time I’ve seen this, is lesson 132 much later is about escaping the world. I can loose the world from all I thought it was. And everyone thinks that’s a very complicated idea. I loose the world from all I thought it was. Well, he talks about it in lesson 23. On the 23rd day of mind training, he says, “I can escape the world I see by giving up attack thoughts. 

22:04                                         So now you’re finding all of your attack thoughts, and you’re being willing to let them go. So I really wanted to just read this, not the whole thing, but some of it. But this cameo … Who has this book? Almost everybody. Oh, awesome. It’s also on Kindle for $9.99. So serious, if you want, you don’t even need a Kindle machine anymore. You can get it on your computer. Do you know? So if you want to get … What?

22:39                                         You can get Kindle on your phone.

22:39                                         [crosstalk 00:22:41].

22:41                                         Yeah, you can get it on your phone. So if you want to get these 33, who’s the best marketer in the whole wide world?

22:41                                         [crosstalk 00:22:49].

22:53                                         But seriously, you would want to read this directly to really see what exactly was going down on Helen Schucman’s notebooks 50 years ago as the instruction. So Helen and Bill in this section are making a lot of mistakes, and they have problems. And the reason I like reading these early stories is because sometimes people have a tendency to know intellectually that Jesus has said, “One problem, one solution.” And that’s true: separation.

23:31                                         So some people won’t specifically look at their problem because they just like, “Oh, it’s just separation.” But he’s working with Helen and Bill and pointing out their actual specific problems. He’s not just glossing it over with like, “Oh, that’s separation.” He’s telling Bill, I don’t know if it’s in this one, but there’s this story where Bill needs to catch a cab, and he’s with Helen and another woman. And he doesn’t open the door for the other woman. And then a whole series of problems happen: The cab comes late, other problems. And Jesus tells Bill that’s because he had a thought. “You should open the door,” or, “You should give the cab to her, not Helen,” or to … Or whatever it was, it’s like he heard, but he had his own agenda already running that he was late and he had to get there, wherever he had to go.

24:35                                         And so he didn’t open the door for her or didn’t give the cab, something like that, and a whole series of problems then ensued. And Jesus said, that’s because I told you to give the cab to her. There would have been another cab right behind it.” He knows the whole picture, your own inner guide. But we so have our own outcome already determined before we act. And then this thing he says, “Your whole problem, you for get to ask. Before every single thing you do, pause, ask me what to do. I will tell you what to do.”

25:16                                         So we’re in a mind training now where at first you won’t know which voice you’re listening to. In the beginning you won’t trust in this voice. You’ll just think, “This crazy land,” like, ” Oh my God, I’m listening to a voice.” So I’m like … But you’ll begin to see the evidence that you are being guided perfectly. So this is Robert Perry. Some of it is Robert Perry’s commentary. And then it’s mixed in with Helen’s notes.

25:57                                         It says, “The text section, asking and following,” text section in the text in chapter four, “was edited from a lengthy set of personal notes that were not transcribed into the [inaudible 00:26:11] text.” So they’re nowhere except in here. That’s cool, $40. Jesus put me in charge of the PR department, and I take my role very, very seriously. That’s funny. These notes deal with Helen’s difficulties with meditation and Bill’s difficulties with guidance, both of which could be solved by the suspension of judgment.

26:49                                         “To make this material applicable to all students and thus suitable for the course, we had to remove about a third of it and reorder some of it as well. For this reason, it seemed appropriate to devote a cameo essay to the discourse in its original form.” So Robert’s telling us that it’s not even in this book, but he devoted the cameo to giving us the most important stuff.

27:16                                         So it says, “To Helen’s question about her reactions to meditation and also Bill’s question, the reason for the fear reaction is quite apparent.” So this is the notes. This is what came through Helen, not … This is not Robert Perry. “You have not yet been able to suspend judgments.” Yep?

27:41                                         Most of the commentary that he uses-

27:44                                         Do you want a mic?

27:48                                         Just for you guys that are not aware of this, most of the commentary that Robert Perry uses came from Absence from Felicity.

27:59                                         Okay. Good.

28:01                                         And all the training.

28:11                                         So I love that. “The reason you have not yet been able to suspend judgment and have merely succeeded in weakening your control over it, since you have an unfortunate tendency to be self-punishing, you believe that control of judgment is a self-preserving function and therefore require it as a necessary defense of yourself. Weakening this defense deliberately is thus perceived as dangerous vulnerability, which frightens you.”

28:48                                         So Robert says, “This is Jesus’ explanation of why Helen is finding meditation frightening. In meditation,” I love this, “she is attempting to still her mind, to clear it of the thick web of judgments that usually clogs it. However, rather than backing off from her judgments completely, suspending them, she has only backed off far enough to loosen her control over them. The results is that her judgments have seemed to take on a life of their own. It’s as if she has a case of mental Tourette’s Syndrome with her mind involuntarily blurting out insults.” And we all have a case of that, right?

28:48                                         [crosstalk 00:29:35].

29:35                                         We just blurt out insults. “Keeping these judgments carefully in check has been a key defense of hers against self-condemnation.” And this is what I love so much is that so often on this path, we’re trying to be perfect little spiritual students, like, “I got to be kind and nice,” and I’ll picture an image. That’s the ego is now just making a nicer image for you. So the thoughts stay hidden. You have to look at your own self-judgment and your own hatred. You must look at it. You must be shocked by it at a certain point, like, “Oh my God, I cannot believe the thoughts I think about myself and others.”

30:22                                         It says, let’s see, “Meditation has become, then, for Helen a source of fear.” And then in the notes, “Bill was right that you should ask before attempting a meditation again. It would be very unwise to try it before we can do it together.” I love that. So one of the things I hear a lot as a teacher too is a lot of resistance around the name, and the word, and the idea of Jesus. And I always just say just allow yourself to keep an open mind and find out what works for you, really. If you have the book, it’s pretty clear that he’s saying, “You would be much help if you recognize me as Jesus, as the leader. It’s your own inner self.”

31:16                                         To me, it’s two things. Jesus to me is the Christ mind that I am. He’s also the role model as the man who walked this earth 2000 years ago. That’s how Jesus is in my mind. I don’t know how anybody else organized it in their own mind, but for me it’s kind of those two things. It’s Jesus the Christ, the Christ I am–that’s who I’m allowing to let lead, and also Jesus as a role model and as a teacher as he lived his life 2,000 years ago. So I think of him up on the cross, and I think they’ve beaten him, bullied him, tortured him, ridiculed him, and his final demonstration, total defenselessness. He could’ve hid. He could’ve used a miracle to go live a life.

32:14                                         I love the me The Last Temptation of Christ. Who’s seen that movie? Who’s not seen that movie? The last temptation of Christ is Jesus on the cross. They show the whole crucifixion. They show the whole resurrection. The last temptation of Christ is that Jesus didn’t go to the cross and he lived out his life with Mary Magdalene and had kids. That’s The Last Temptation of Christ, that he could’ve lived a human life, that he could’ve decided that he was just going to live a happy life, a happy, simple, peaceful life. And it shows him getting old and dying. It shows him living the life, got the kids, got Mary. But that last demonstration is like him being all in, like, “I’m going to go face the thing that-“

32:14                                         [inaudible 00:33:06].

33:06                                         “… probably totally fearful.” Linda Leeland just heard that. That’s so funny. But he’s up on the cross, and his final words that were recorded, “Forgive them Father. They know not what they do.” So he was not acting as if they were his projections and that he was still guilty because he was seeing a world of attack. He knew his identity. He knew who he was, and he recognized, “These are my brothers. This is my whole mind. Forgive them, Father. They know not what they do.” That’s a great role model for me in the face of my own examples of people attacking me or whatever, that I can remember that.

33:56                                         And then there’s the compassion that comes in that moment. So it says, “I assure you that I will be vigilant …” Oh, sorry. “Bill was right that you should ask before attempting meditation again. It would be very unwise to try it before we can do it together. As I told you last night, I assure you that I will be vigilant in identifying the right time, and I told you very clearly next time we will do it together. I did not tell you when that will be because I, Jesus, do not know. You will tell me that.”

34:38                                         So we’re collaborating. That was the first initial collaboration was between Helen and Bill, which is showing us our own collaboration with ourselves, and our inner teacher, and our collaboration with our brothers. So it’s Jesus isn’t just bossing us around. He’s not a bossy leader. He’s saying, “Let’s work together, and you tell me when. You rearrange your day, and then I will be there with you to help you. You will tell me that but may not recognize that you have done so. That is why you need me to relay your own messages back to you. When we are both ready, it cannot be fearful.”

35:24                                         So Robert writes about his commentary on that. And then in the notes, an answer to Bill’s question as to why he has so much difficulty in communication, “You were right in what you said in the cab, and Bill could not listen. However, he seems to be able to listen quite carefully in the notes. As him, please, to listen very carefully to these.” Robert says, “Now, Jesus turns to Bill’s question, which was about why Bill has so much difficulty in communication. This probably refers to Bill’s difficulty in receiving communication from Jesus. This appears to be an ongoing question for Bill since this was a subject of the guidance with which the dictation of the course begins.

36:14                                         “It also appears that Bill has resistance to the answer. For Helen apparently touched on the answer in something said in the cab, and Bill could not listen. Since he couldn’t listen to the truth when it came from her, Jesus is now hoping he will listen when it comes from him. So I don’t know if you were here a few weeks ago. I was telling the story of how Helen was really, she was really training herself to listen to the voice and stop herself before you takes an action, finds out what to do.

36:52                                         So she’s about to go call Bill on the phone. She remembers to pause: “When should I call Bill?” The voice says, “Finish the notes. I’m going to try to reach Bill to tell Bill to call you, but if Bill’s not listening, you call him at 4:00.” So that mind is trying to get through to all of us all the time, but we’re not listening. You have a thought: “Call so-and-so,” and the mind has already in judgment of what you think your plan is for the day, and you think, “I’m too busy.” And so then a whole chain of problems now starts until you start to learn how to listen and ask. And then you start to trust in that.

37:43                                         When it says move, you move. You don’t put a course concept in there, like, “I need do nothing,” which is what a lot of people do. They just think, “It’s an illusion. There’s no world. I need do nothing.” And then you wonder why you have money problems and why you have pain and sickness and problems. It’s because that’s the truth, like the overarching truth. But the truth is that as long as you’re not experiencing total joy and peace, you need to work with your mind to find the blocks.

38:21                                         So it says, let’s see, “If you ask me for guidance, if you ask me, Jesus, for guidance, you have signified your willingness to give over your own control, at least to some extent. Your frequent failure to ask at all indicates that at such time, you are not willing to go even that far.” How many of you have a consistent asking practice? Yeah, not many of us. I don’t. That’s just me being honest. It’s like we’re so much on our old habits.

39:02                                         More than before.

39:03                                         But I’m more and more like I … What? What did you say?

39:06                                         [crosstalk 00:39:06] means more.

39:06                                         I said more than before, but not all the time.

39:09                                         Yeah. [crosstalk 00:39:10].

39:10                                         Because all the time I shout my mouth on a constant basis.

39:14                                         I got nothing.

39:16                                         But you begin to see the pain you feel when you don’t ask. So it’s you get quicker and quicker with asking. Yep?

39:30                                         [inaudible 00:39:27]. In my experience, your evolution of your intimate connection with source changes. And in my asking, it’s happening in the pause. The asking is happening in the quiet space because that’s where God’s voice speaks to me in the quiet. And so it doesn’t require a verbal, “Oh, Jesus, what should I do here? God, I don’t know what to do.” I mean, you can use a question. Questions can be very effective. It’s not all … Like I said, for me, it’s an evolution, and the pause is resting in God. The pause is abiding in creator, in source. And that is the synonymous with asking.

40:19                                         Yep. And that is the experience. At first it is that there’s a Jesus outside of you and there’s a you. And so at first in the beginning as you’re training, it does look like that, but then it becomes more integrated where it’s just a listening within, and there’s a movement. Did you have something, Irene?

40:41                                         Oh, I …

40:45                                         Is that on? Yep.

40:45                                         I can’t remember whether we talked about this with Kelly or not, but I think one of the things that happens to us is you begin to hear the truth, and it scares you because it doesn’t look like the illusion you want to keep going. And so the truth is rising, and then the ego is going, “Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.” And I think that’s called anxiety. And then what happens is everybody wants to medicate it because you want to still it, but what you’re doing is you’re freezing it in place.

41:16                                         Uh-huh (affirmative).

41:17                                         It’s scary to hear the truth.

41:20                                         Yep.

41:22                                         So something that I guess I do, I teach, I don’t know, but it’s to pray for the willingness to be willing. There’s a step before that sometimes. Just let me have the willingness to be willing to sit with this, or listen to this, or just stand in the possibility of this.

41:40                                         Yep. I love it. I’m so glad you brought that up because that’s a big one, that so much of like the false belief in what a spiritual path or an awakening looks like is that it’s supposed to feel good. But it’s a dismantling. We’re here to dismantle your mind. I always love the joke that Diane [Crosser 00:42:03] said. And it’s funny. There’s so much cake over there, but Diane said to me one time, she’s like, “You tricked us. You’re like, ‘Come to the Friday group. It’ll be cake. It’ll be so fun. Oh my God, it’s a party.'” And then she said, “You get us here and we didn’t realize that you’re here to dismantle our minds.”

42:26                                         I just want to finish this. We’re like right at the end of our time. I just want to read a couple more things here. Okay, so this is about … I’m just going to read this one paragraph, and then, again, I really encourage everyone to read it and have fun with this. This is really for you. It says, “When you fail to ask for guidance, which Bill and Helen along with the rest of us frequently do, it is because you don’t want to give over control of the situation. Is that true?

43:00                                         Yeah.

43:00                                         Mm-hmm (affirmative).

43:00                                         You don’t want to give over control. You already have the outcome you want. You have already written the script for how you want everyone in your script to play out your part that you’ve written for them-

43:00                                         [inaudible 00:43:11].

43:11                                         … and how they’re going to show up in your life. And it’s already, the movie’s already in the works. And so you don’t want to give up your control of things going a different way, and that’s why you don’t ask. And that’s why we have problems. So conversely when you do ask for guidance, that shows that you have at least some willingness to give up control and to instead cooperate with Jesus. This willingness … “Oh no. I don’t want to say that. I don’t want to do that.” And it’s a dismantling of your own stuck though system, and it sucks. It does. It hurts. It’s painful. My experience of it, it does result in physical pains for a moment in some things. It’s like old memories are just moving through. But what we want to do is we can’t stand the discomfort, so we try to lessen the pain. We take a pill. And I’m not saying taking the pill is wrong, because it’s definitely not. But we so don’t want to experience the discomfort and stand in it.

44:28                                         When we’re with a brother and the brother is saying something to you that you don’t like, we just tell a story about it, and we’re just like, “Oh, they don’t get it. They need to do A Course in Miracles.” And off we go into our happy little land. But it’s like if you’re willing to stand in the discomfort and listen to what is being shown to you through your brother and stand there, be still, and trust, then you see how quickly it just it passes. You’re really just standing right there in front of your own fear and having the willingness to let it be dissolved.

45:07                                         So it says, and I’m just going to read this one paragraph, “You, Helen, asked merely what you should do now. The answer was to tell Jack …” So Jack was her cab driver, I mean her limo driver that she had. “The answer was to tell Jack to pick you up at 3:00. Bill’s reaction to this was unfortunate, and yours was much more constructive, making it particularly unfortunate that Bill accepted your very correct response to his reaction with irritation.”

45:40                                         So Bill had another idea. Helen wanted to get home. Helen was going to call her driver, Jack. Bill wanted Helen to go to his apartment instead and not call Jack. So he’s now not trusting in the guidance that’s coming to Helen. And that happens all the time. So it says, ” So the irritation was inevitable. This was inevitable because he had already given way to fear. Then you, Helen, reacted to his mistake with irritation.” So that’s what I was saying: How often do you get sucked into other people’s dramas?

46:21                                         So they’re irritated, and now I’m irritated. One irritation is enough, right? But that’s really like where the pause is, really. That’s a brilliant, brilliant practice because it’s like you, like Kelly was saying, recognize, you have the ability to zip it up. But before you say anything, you’re just like before you have … I love this one. It says, “Mental Tourette’s Syndrome where the mind involuntarily blurts out insults,” and you have the ability, because you’re so powerful, to just shut up. That’s what Kelly was saying: She was just like … One moment.

47:05                                         And then it says, “So the irritation was inevitable because Bill had already given way to fear. Then you reacted to his mistake with irritation, and we,” Jesus and Helen, “lost our communication. For a time. Let us try to reestablish a connection now. Bill was unwise in deciding on his own that unless you went to his apartment, Jack would be in trouble. This association meant that he saw only one alternative and was unable to keep an open mind. Certainly he should be confident that any guidance which comes from me, Jesus, will not jeopardize anyone.

47:50                                         “It should also be noted that he projected his misperception onto you assuming that you were counting on magic to get Jack to take you home in spite of the traffic and not realizing the situation as it is. I would like to tell him for you that this was a misperception of his. And although you have done this at times in the past, you were not doing it then. As you very correctly stated, but Bill could not listen at the time, you were merely reporting a message for which you had asked and were not judging the outcome– Bill was.

48:33                                         “If you can continue not to evaluate my messages and merely follow them, they will be, they will lead to good for everyone. Since this is the same area of difficulty, which is causing both of you trouble with meditation, practice in this is essential.” So to me it’s always about the direct experience. You cannot see Jesus. You cannot see this invisible presence and power, but you will see the effects of your collaboration with this presence and this power. So you’re joining now, and it defies logic.

49:07                                         So when I first started … I had major resistance to Jesus, major, major resistance to God. I used to think, “Jesus didn’t need Jesus to get to God. I’m going to go to God directly. I don’t need a Holy Spirit.” Seriously, I was like, “Jesus didn’t need the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came after Jesus, so I don’t need the Holy Spirit either.” That was the logic of my ego mind. But then I started just seeing how difficult my life is, and I was like, “Why would I have resistance to at least experimenting with maybe there’s a presence and a power with me that loves me?”

49:43                                         And what I started to see was Jesus loves to surprise us. He loves to help us. God’s voice is speaking to all through the day in everyone, in every situation. And so to me, the answer is to do the workbook lessons. That’s to me like to do the mind training, to not try to skip over to get to the results. Just say, “Okay, I’m going to train my mind. I’m going to schedule times during the day for listening. And I’m going to adhere to those times, and I’m going to start to really … To me, it’s just about that first acknowledgement that maybe there is a power and a presence. To me, if you can do that, you’ll start hearing, really. So who saw the video this morning of Bill? Bill took a video of me. Bill yesterday, on my birthday, May 2nd, it was my 50th birthday, and Bill decorated the whole living room area with these streamers and a big-

50:50                                         [crosstalk 00:50:50] 50 [crosstalk 00:50:50].

50:50                                         … birthday tree, this birthday tree. So I was coming down the stairs at 6:00 AM, and in my robe, and what’s so funny to me is that my hair in the morning is usually like … But I woke up in the morning on May 2nd, and on the floor was my headband and my also a clip. I’ve never seen the headband and the clip on the floor like that. So I thought, “I’m going to put my hair up this morning.” So I put my hair up. And then I was like, “I think I’ll just pull it all the way back.” So now it’s not messy at all, it looks okay.

51:28                                         So I go downstairs, and I was like this … And I told Bill, “You’re not planning a surprise party, are you? Because I really don’t want one. I really don’t …” He goes, “No. I swear I’m not.” And I’m like, I said, “It would be okay, I guess, if you were doing that, but I just want to keep it simple.” And he’s like, “No, I swear no surprise parties.” I’m like, “Good.”

51:48                                         I said there might. I [crosstalk 00:51:49].

51:49                                         There might be a surprise. So I come down the stairs, and I’m like, “Oh my God.” And I’m just being me. And I said to Bill, “We need to get a video tape of this.” And he goes, “You’re being filmed over there.” I’m like, “Oh my God.” So he got the whole thing on film. It’s up on Facebook. I’ll probably send it out to my mailing list, but good job. 

52:18                                         I love you. Thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions or comments, please send them to Lisa at lisanatoli.com. And really this is just about practicing, and this week is meditation and guidance. God’s voice is speaking to you all through the day. You can hear this voice. And I want you to have fun practicing. Thank you so much.